(lively music) - These are the stories that move us, the stories that guide us, and the stories that reflect our community, filmed in our neighborhoods and local haunts by those who call this city home.

Atlanta filmmakers are documenting stories that show the life of our city in a way that we could only imagine.

These are the stories that we tell, this is Atlanta On Film.

Welcome back to Atlanta On Film, I'm Holly Firfer.

Today we're gonna watch as a civil rights activist attempts for reconciliation.

Now, during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, many Jews came to the aid of a struggling African American community.

Now, one man, Paul Saltzman, traveled to Mississippi to help facilitate the Black vote, but he was attacked and he ran for his life.

But decades later, Paul tracked down his assailant to see if he had changed his racist views.

This is The Last White Knight.

(film roll whirring) - [Paul] Okay, we're at 61 minutes, and we are rolling.

And this is roll one, Delay interview, it's okay I'll do it, and I'm gonna give a slate.

(hands clap) - Alright, sir.

- [Paul] Okay, we're good to go.

Well- - [Delay] Good to see you again, Paul.

- [Paul] Thank you for coming and for talking to me.

- And thank you for inviting me up to New York.

It's been a pleasure to come up here and- - [Paul] I appreciate you coming out of Mississippi.

You said something to me on the phone that I'm curious about.

You said you haven't been this naked since you were 14.

What did you mean?

- Well, it's a joke between some conservatives and whatnot, I haven't had my pistol with me.

I had to go to the airport without it, and I even left it at home and it's not in my automobile.

Being a Beckwith, we usually have two or three weapons around us all the time.

Not because we're scared, just because we love guns.

But I do, like my father did, tote a .45 ACP every place I go.

(somber music) - [Paul] I walked down here, and then as I was approaching, I saw four young guys leaning up against a car in front of the courthouse.

(upbeat music) And I got about halfway up the front walkway, and I heard one guy say, "Hey, buddy, wait a minute."

(tense music) And I stopped, and he came around in front of me, and he said, "Where do you think you're going?"

And I said, "To the meeting."

And he said, "What's your name?"

And I got really frightened inside.

I must've been radiating fear, but I just was terrified.

And the next thing I knew there was a blur.

And his punch helped me spin, and I went down on one knee.

And as soon as I hit the ground, I was running.

All sound stopped.

And I could feel my heart pounding, and I could hear the sound of their breathing.

And within about five seconds, I was halfway across the lawn and I could hear their breathing falling back, and I knew I was safe.

(somber music) Hello.

- Paul, how you doing?

- Delay.

- Good to see you.

- Good to meet you.

- [Delay] It's been 43 years, hasn't it?

- [Paul] It's been a while.

- Long, hard time in between us, hasn't it?

- Yes, yes it has.

- 43 years ago, hard to remember every little thing, but yes, I remember I popped you, do remember that.

I know you were much faster than me.

- Thank God, eh?

- Well, I don't know.

- So if you had caught me, what would've happened?

- I'd imagine you'd have been very sore for two or three days.

In fact, I think when you came up the following day to really identify me when the police brought you to my service station, I think you were still rubbing your jaw and you didn't wanna get close enough so that I could hit you again.

- Yeah, no, I was afraid, I didn't want to go near you.

And I didn't know if the cop could be trusted 'cause the cops were sometimes Klan, right?

- Yeah.

Well, yes sir, accused of it and whatnot, yes.

- So then I identified you, we weighed charges, we went to court.

Were you worried at all or was it just an easy thing, you were just gonna blow it off and- - You know, I just thought it was just a joke and was gonna get some publicity out of it in a newspaper.

And I knew that you couldn't prove it, you didn't have any witnesses.

- Mm-hmm, right.

- And very few people ever see a lot of things that I've ever done in my life anyhow.

- And the judge was certainly not on our side.

He yelled at us.

- Yeah.

- [Paul] And then the trial ended.

- Yeah.

- As we were standing up to leave, your father, now, I knew of him from our point of view.

He had shot Medgar Evers in the back and killed him and he had gotten off scot free.

He comes past us, gives me a shoulder, and says, "Outta my way."

And we just stepped back and said, "Yes sir."

- That's very possible.

I mean, I wasn't paying attention to my father, but yeah.

- [Paul] So how come you hit me?

- Well, Paul, you know, we were just trying to have a little fun with you.

- [Paul] It wasn't much fun for me.

- Well, I'm sorry, but sometimes we don't both feel the same way about the fun.

- [Paul] We wanted things to change.

- Yes, sir, you wanted- - [Paul] We wanted Blacks to have their vote, and you didn't.

- Yeah, yes sir, you're exactly right.

It was a situation.

We were trying to make you understand that you were not welcome.

- [Paul] Personally?

- No, not personally.

It was the people you were involved with.

- [Paul] The civil rights workers?

- The civil rights workers, and the attitude that y'all were taking and trying to instill upon us.

And you were infringing on our territory.

(lively music) Now, why did you get into the movement, and what was your thinking why you wanted to become a Freedom Rider?

- It was me as a young man sitting in Toronto actually watching the evening news that these three guys, Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner, who they were, and that they disappeared.

(somber music) And as I watched the news each night, I was horrified when their bodies were discovered, I felt bad.

They were murdered by the Ku Klux Klan with the involvement and the conspiracy of the local police.

And I wanted to do something.

I wanted to work in the Civil Rights Movement, I wanted to help with voter registration.

How strong was the Klan, how many?

- Oh, my goodness.

In the '60s, it was in the thousands.

Now, you had police officers, and also some with the Mississippi Highway Patrol were members of the Klan.

The Klan was very dominant.

And the Imperial Wizard of the Klan was Sam Bowers, and he controlled the Klan.

So if he wanted someone murdered, all he had to do was order that person murdered, like the Goodman, Schwerner and Chaney, - Michael Schwerner had come from New York, had come down here to set up a freedom school in Meridian, which is close to where I grew up.

- [James] And Goodman was an individual, a young student from New York.

And then James Chaney was a Mississippi Black.

- Andrew Goodman had only been in Mississippi a day when he went with Chaney and Schwerner to a Black church near my hometown.

- [James] And Schwerner was the person that the Klan had marked for death.

- And then they were followed by a mob of several cars, including highway patrol were involved and the deputy sheriff and that kind of thing.

And then rundown, basically, and then killed on the side of the road.

- [James] And when they worked to register Blacks to vote, that's when they were killed.

- [Paul] When you found out that Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner had been killed, how did you feel?

What was your response?

- Just three more damn idiots that should have kept their nose out of Mississippi business and Mississippi politics, and should have stayed at home.

And they got what they deserved.

- I was sick.

Number one, they're Jewish.

Number two, they had no business being killed.

Number three, I know where they were killed, I know the people that killed them, and they're pigs, for the most part.

Sure, hell, nobody that I know was happy about that.

Good Lord.

- Can I ask a second question?

- [Paul] Sure.

- Since you knew everything that happened to Cheney, Schwerner, and Goodman, did you have any thought that the same thing might happen to you, and especially when you realized that you were being assigned to Greenwood, Mississippi?

- The heart of darkness, so to speak?

(both laugh) You know, I don't recall thinking that could happen to me.

I don't recall I didn't think it couldn't.

You know, I was 21, you were 19 when we had our run in.

- 18.

- 18.

- 19, 19.

- Okay, so then I think you'll associate with this.

- Yes sir.

- When you're 21 or 19, you're invincible, right?

- Right.

- You don't really think anything's gonna happen to you because in a certain way, you can't conceive of it.

(somber music) Tell me about the three guys who shot Jimmie Travis that night.

- Well, I guess they just wanted to fulfill a mission that was probably set forth from whatever Klavern that they were from, or just they had made their own decision that Jimmie Travis needed to be done away with.

- In 1963 working in Greenwood, Mississippi, on voter registration, we had had a meeting at the SNCC office that night.

When the meeting was over, Randolph Blackwell, Bob Moses, and I, got into a car, I was driving.

I spotted a white Buick with three white people in it.

And as we drove off, they proceeded to follow the car that I was driving.

And what I did was I pulled into a service station, cut the lights off, and they went on by.

And I thought that I had lost them.

And then as we were going on to Highway 82, they spotted us.

And at that point there was nowhere for me to go, and this white Buick pulled up alongside.

I'm thinking that they're going to try and run us off the road.

I hear a burst of gunfire.

(gun firing) (car engine revs) The white Buick had gone on off, and I feel something wet on my neck.

And I put my hand up 'cause I didn't feel anything other than something wet, and I put my hand up and I looked, and it was blood.

I later found out that there were 13 bullet holes in the body of the car, three windows, well, all the windows were shot out, and I had been hit twice.

They removed a .45 caliber bullet from my shoulder.

The one that hit me in the head is still there.

To me, that was really a miracle that I had not been killed.

- [Paul] What did you and your Klan buddies think of them missing the mission?

- Just, I'm laughing, just says, you know, you damn fools, why didn't you go back and finish the job?

- And I was informed there that had the bullet gone in from any other angle, I would've been paralyzed for life or I would've been killed instantly.

- [Paul] And the three white guys that shot you up, were they ever caught?

- They were caught, but nothing was ever done.

- [Paul] They weren't charged?

- No.

I wanted them dead, wanted to kill them, but I don't think I could kill anybody.

- [Paul] So it was better not to know who they were.

- Right.

I don't think that I could take another life, I couldn't.

It's just not a part of me.

- A colored lady was my mate.

I called her my (censored) mammy.

Here's her picture.

I did not call her my (censored) mammy to her face.

But as far as being prejudiced and hating Blacks, no way.

No way could I ever hate or disrespect this lady.

- [Paul] And yet when you attacked me for trying to help Blacks have the vote, that sounds like such a contradiction to your affection for her.

Did you not want her to vote?

- No.

If Eleanor would've told my mother and daddy she wanted to register to vote, they probably would've told her she couldn't have.

But I don't imagine there would've been no great big fuss and fight and everything like the civil rights.

My mother was an expert pistol and rifle shot.

She loved to fish, her and mammy.

My mother was experiencing some alcohol problems at that time.

She got her gun and threatened me.

And I just ran on outside and she was shooting through the screen door at me as I was going on out.

- [Paul] Did your mom ever hit you?

- With a bullet, no sir, no.

- [Paul] How close did she get?

- Oh, shoot, Paul.

I hate to kinda sound like I'm running my mother down, but oh, she would, sometimes she'd just, that far from my feet.

I remember one time that probably unnerved me the worst was I was standing, but I was spread-legged enough that it was right between my feet, and she was totally intoxicated.

And I said, "Woo, that was close."

There's been a lot of, but after the bang, I never really worried about where it went because it didn't hit me.

We all laughed, everybody in Greenwood laughed.

- [Paul] Were you ever afraid of your dad?

- [Delay] I was afraid of my father.

- [Paul] Why?

- Whooping.

And yes sir, my father has thrashed me, and probably above and beyond what should have been.

But at the same time, you got to remember I was a very strong-headed, rebelliant young man.

I would say I probably started shooting around four years old.

If it was 105 degrees, we would go find a gravel pit or we would go someplace on the creek bank and shoot snakes and turtles.

And that was my growing up with my father.

- [Paul] And what about today?

Are you still a member of the Klan today?

- Oh, yes sir.

I mean, and the way I can answer that is one Klan oath, you took it to the day you die.

You accept Jesus Christ as your savior, and you are supposedly an ordained Christian.

So I would say I am an ordained Klansman to my death.

(rain pattering) (thunder rumbling) - We're in south Mississippi, and we're on our way to Pearl.

Now, the Klan historically formed around the time of the Civil War.

And it was a terrorist organization, there's no other way to put it.

They raped, they murdered, they burned houses, they burned churches, they hung people.

There were 6,000 hangings or lynchings in mostly the South, between 1850 and early 1900s in America.

Would you be willing to take your masks off?

- [Richard] No.

My name is Richard Green, I'm 45 years old.

I'm the Imperial Wizard of the Mississippi White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

- [Lisa] I'm Lisa Green, I'm 46 years old.

I'm the Imperial Lady of the Mississippi White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

- [Terry] Terry Mozingo, 29.

- [Paul] What were you taught by your parents about Blacks?

- [Richard] They taught me that to stay with my own race, and that Black people had their race and that I should stay with my own race.

And that's how I was brought up and that's how I remain today.

(children laughing) - I think it is good that we play with Black, Oriental, other people from different places because we can learn more about their culture.

I think that we all should get along, play together.

God made us all the same on the inside, we're just different colors on the outside.

- [Paul] And were you taught that Black people are inferior?

- Well, it's not so much being taught, it's looking at the accomplishments that we have here in America and Mississippi.

I really don't see any civilization ran by Black people that's ever accomplished anything.

So yes, I would have to say that whites are the superior race.

- If anybody who is racist watches this, just get over it.

It's all right.

Slavery's gone.

- We're the same.

- [Richard] I believe they were created to be servants, and now it's to the point to where we're losing all our rights and they're just not doing what they're supposed to be doing.

- I've heard them at Klan meetings, I've been on the fringes listening to them, and all they talk about is the goddamn Jews and (censored), and hate them all, get rid of all of them, we hate them all.

That's Klan talk.

- [Richard] I believe they should all go back to Africa or we should give them a place, set them up a government, see if they could run it, which I doubt very seriously they could, and see what happens and watch them go to (censored).

- [Paul] So when you see a interracial couple- - [Richard] You know, all I can do is cringe and wanna puke.

I believe it's an attempt to dumb us down.

I believe the intelligence level will go down in whites.

Of course, it may raise the level in Blacks, but then we become one total race of people, and that's not the way.

You're going against God, and it's obvious.

- Well, they want a white nation, pure white nation.

That's what they want.

Pure white Christian nation, I'm sorry I left out one word, pure white Christian nation.

- The Ku Klux Klan, a very fine Christian organization.

My involvement with the Klan came probably when I was about 16 years old or, well, I would even say I'd go back as far as 14 years old.

Churches were burned, molly cocktails were thrown, people got hurt in cars, windows were shot out.

- [Paul] Did you take part in all that?

- Well, certainly.

- [Paul] And did you feel that that was something that accomplished anything?

- Yes sir, I accomplished a lot.

I made quite a few (censored), and some sorry white trash, and some Freedom Riders, or a mixture of them, understand that I wasn't gonna tolerate it, I wasn't gonna be pushed.

- [Richard] It's the invisible empire.

There's people in high places, police officers, judges.

And of course they can't be seen in public, they'll lose their job, but they still, they give us a thumbs up and they still support us.

But it's not hatred we feel, it's just pride in our own race and we want to keep it that way.

- And it's like a seven-year locust.

They're just sitting underground waiting for an opportunity to spring up.

(rain patters) (somber music) ♪ When will I find peace ♪ ♪ When will I find peace ♪ ♪ When will I find peace my lord ♪ ♪ You'll find it when you sleep ♪ ♪ When I die where will I be ♪ ♪ When I die where will I be ♪ ♪ When I die where will I be ♪ ♪ Lying at your feet ♪ - And of course back then, Blacks couldn't go into white barber shops, is that correct?

- Right, right, mm-hmm.

Yeah, you could go there, but you might not come out.

(both laugh) - I hear you, I hear you.

We're rolling with that one.

- All right.

- [Paul] Memphis roll two, Delay de la Beckwith.

(hands clap) Great.

Well, good to see you again.

- It is a pleasure of mine to see you again.

- [Paul] Is there anything you'd like to start with?

- I was thrilled the more we talked, and I was kind of glad to renew a friendship that wasn't a friendship to begin with.

I thought it was extremely unique and good that 40-something years later, the two of us could speak to each other again in a very civil and nice tone of voice and laugh about the past.

- [Paul] Anything at all you'd like to add?

- All right, well, Paul, we've mentioned me carrying a concealed weapon before.

And I started carrying a concealed weapon when I was approximately 15 years old when I got my driver's license.

But I was raised with them.

Ever since I was in diapers, been fooling them with them, and they laid all over our home and everything else.

But I carried it for self-protection.

- [Paul] Do you have one now?

- Oh, yes sir, yes sir, as usual.

We laugh and joke about that if I've got my pants on, I've got my .45 ACP with me.

- [Paul] Should I be frightened?

- You don't need to be intimidated or afraid or thinking I'm threatening you or anything.

It's just for my self-protection, to build my confidence, and to let me know that I am very capable of doing what I need to do in certain situations when it arises.

- [Paul] Have you ever had to use it in that kind of sense?

- I've never fired it in that sense, but yes sir, I have pulled it several times in my life.

- [Paul] To let someone else know to back off?

- Yes sir.

Because it wasn't gonna go any further than that because I was scared at that moment to the point that I was going to get hurt.

And if I was going to get hurt, I was gonna hurt somebody.

(somber music) - [Paul] Medgar Evers served overseas in the US Army.

In Mississippi, he fought for Black rights, organizing voter registration drives, boycotting segregated white businesses, and investigating crimes against Blacks.

On June 11th, 1963, he worked late, coming home after midnight.

He couldn't see what was happening in the bushes across the road from his home.

(suspenseful music) (gun fires) (tense music) (somber music) Medgar was buried in Arlington with full military honors.

3,000 people heard these words, "No soldier in this field has fought more courageously, more heroically than Medgar Evers."

And later, President Kennedy received his family at the White House.

(somber music) When you heard that Medgar had been killed, how did you feel?

- I'll be very truthful, I just laughed.

I said, well, somebody just took care of the problem.

Now maybe things will shut up and settle down.

(plane engine roaring) (announcer talking indistinctly) - Come in, you look at the airport, you see Medgar Evers, you see this display on the wall about all that went on here.

It's obviously somebody's attempting to correct the wrongs that were done.

I have great admiration for the state attorney that went after Beckwith, pushed the case and tried it and brought justice to Mississippi.

I think all those things have to be respected.

But there's so much that's still hidden in America, and a lot of what's hidden is hidden down here in Mississippi.

- [Paul] Did your dad pull the trigger?

He was convicted.

- I will tell you for your film, the shooter is possibly still alive.

- [Paul] Is it you?

- No.

- [Paul] Your God's words?

- Yes.

- [Paul] But it was whose gun, whose gun was used?

- Byron Delay Beckwith family gun.

Now- - [Paul] I thought it was your gun that was used.

- It was, it was family gun.

- [Paul] Your dad had bragged about doing the deed.

- He made statements that would draw you to believe he probably did or could, and no, I will say, everyone, everyone knew that he was very capable of doing the deed or the act.

(lively drum music) - [Paul] What's the occasion?

- Oh, the Medgar Evers Parade to honor the late Medgar Evers.

Stood for freedom for us Black people.

(upbeat drum music) (siren wailing) (vehicle horn bellows) (bike engines revving) - Hey.

How you doing?

(lively drum music) - Oh, it's the anniversary of Medgar, and we always have a parade every year.

We will continue as long as we can because he gave all he had.

- 30 years ago, you seen a lot of racism.

You still have racism today, but Medgar Evers has made a difference in life and so forth.

I hope I can make a difference in life.

- [Paul] What happened that night, and why did your dad go to prison?

- Through the Klan, there were more than one person or a couple of people involved.

Straws were drawn, and the decision was made by those people.

- [Paul] That Medgar was to be killed, correct?

- Yes sir.

- [Paul] And was the straws drawn to decide who would be the shooter?

- You know, that's the last gray area that I do not have the exact conviction in my heart, my mind, of who.

I'm actually telling you outta my mouth that there's only two still alive.

- [Paul] Have you talked to them?

- Yes sir.

- [Paul] You've asked them who pulled the trigger?

- I've asked them to answer some questions for me that would give me the definite answer because they will die with it just like my father did.

- [Paul] And will they give you the answer?

- So far they haven't.

(lively drum music) - [Paul] What's the solution?

- Solution is reconciliation and bringing race together.

(lively drum music) - [Paul] So why was Medgar killed?

- Because he was getting his program working in voter registration.

- [Paul] And did it make a difference?

- Oh, yes sir, it made a difference.

It got people more stirred up on both sides.

Some things moved forward, but his movement and what he himself was spearheading did take a slowdown, and it became more of a politician game.

And no disrespect, but using you young northern idiots, as I call it, to come on down and take the beating and do the dirty work.

- You came down here, you Freedom Riders, you SNCCs, and all those folks, came down here with, frankly, with our Jewish names, all published.

People say, oh, the goddamn Jews are down in Mississippi tearing the place apart.

You go home.

We begged you, don't come down here, stay away.

No, you didn't do it.

- Paul, you were down here as a (censored) lover trying to get things done for them.

And I didn't feel like you as a white man had any right to get yourself involved in it.

- Had it not been for the white kids from the North coming down here and getting beaten and killed for helping us to try to get our freedom, this country, I believe, would've still been in the dark ages.

And a lot of people don't like hearing me say that.

But the white people in this country couldn't stand to see on television the white girls and the white boys being dragged and beaten, and Michael Schwerner and Andrew Goodman killed to help us.

Then the governments began to change and started enacting laws that protected everybody, and that included us.

That was a great impact.

Long as we're just Black folks, they would kill us and go on about their business.

But when they started killing white people, it made a difference.

So thank y'all you white folks who came down, including you.

- I don't care whether the rest of the world agrees with me or not, 'cause I'm a Beckwith.

I've got respect for Medgar.

The respect comes because he was man enough to serve in the United States Armed Forces.

I believe he was in the army.

He came home with a strong will and a desire to help his race and his people.

- [Paul] Your dad was convicted of killing him.

Given your respect for Medgar- - Yes sir.

- [Paul] Is there a contradiction here?

- No.

My respect is for what the man did and believed in.

(lively music) - So this is the main street of Greenwood that we're just coming onto.

And back in the '60s, it was a pretty segregated town.

And what I'm looking for is I'm looking for the house of the Green family, Mr and Mrs Green and their children.

I have a picture left from that era with me with Cookie Green and bullet holes in the front screen door because one night the Klan shot the house up because the Green family had the courage to allow civil rights workers or to take in civil rights workers.

Actually, it's across the tracks, which is a very common thing in the South where literally across the tracks does mean you're entering the Black section of town or the poor section of town traditionally.

There's 611.

Oh, my gosh, there's the house, and it's been burnt.

(thunder rumbling) (rain pattering) (somber music) (thunder rumbles) Well, this was once a family home with seven children and the mother Freddy and the father Julian.

And this was the safe haven for a lot of us during the voter registration drive and the civil rights drive.

Harry Belafonte and Sidney Poitier and John Lewis, who was the head of SNCC, and Stokely Carmichael.

This was the back room where I slept and the other civil rights workers slept at different times.

(somber music) - What happened to her?

- [Paul] It was a cooking accident.

- Wow.

Did anybody get hurt?

- Thankfully, no.

- I came out and my mother was coming home from work, and she was in the block.

And when I ran to her, she saw me, she said, "Harry."

And I said, outta breath or what, "Yeah."

She said, "What's the matter?"

And I said, "They're about to beat me up."

And she saw these white kids coming after me.

And she stood, "What you running for?

You stand up."

And okay, she was there, I could take some courage from that.

And in this moment, these kids came by and they swacked her with a little baseball bat.

Her, bang, hit her.

And she went down holding the side of her head and screaming.

And she came with a fury.

And when they saw her bleeding and they saw the fury, they turned around and ran.

And that was the first deep personal invasion of an act of white cruelty that stayed with me forever.

- God is love, is that something you would agree with?

- Yes sir.

- Do you think that God, the God of love, actually made people of different colors to be of different value?

Why would God do that?

- Because somebody had to rule and somebody had to lead and direct.

But it's just a proven fact that some of the races just didn't want to expand theirself and go as far as the white race has.

(somber music) - The race issue exists here.

I don't talk race.

You're smiling.

- [Paul] I think that's cool.

- Okay, good.

I don't, I don't talk race.

It's not, as I say it, the only way to get past it is to forget about it.

None of us have any different genetic structure, I mean, not one wit.

Your genes determine the color of your eyes, texture of your hair, stuff like that.

But we still have the same genetic structure, we still have the same genetic structure.

- Race is a learned behavior.

Like when I was a little boy and I played soccer.

And I've always been a fat boy, but I was quick, so I played soccer, and it was cool, you know what I'm saying?

But we went to Pearl.

And I'll never forget this, I was a little boy.

I mean, I couldn't have been in the third grade 'cause I stopped playing soccer I think in second grade.

And I get the ball on a breakaway, I make a move, I score, it's one-nothing.

I'm the only Black guy on my team, and the parents from Pearl start calling me (censored), right?

My coach didn't say anything, the white ref didn't say anything, the white players didn't say anything.

And my mom just looked at me like, what you want to do?

And I said, I wanna win.

I won.

And I don't think I played soccer after that year.

That's learned.

So when you grow up with that, when you know that you're not supposed to be called this anymore and nobody that's supposed to be on your team sticks up for you, you kinda learn what side of the fence you on and you deal with it.

- [Paul] That must have hurt though for a little boy.

- It did.

I mean, I can't say that it doesn't bother me to this day, I wouldn't have brought it up if it didn't bother me.

But to know that people could do that to children, to think that school teachers could sit in front of a classroom for a whole year and a kid that looks like me can't read, I got a problem with that.

I mean like what happened after the Civil Rights Movement is that racism took a completely different shape, it took a completely different turn.

And instead of them calling me (censored) on the soccer field, they may tell me attaboy on the football field, and high-five me and pat me on the back and make sure that I don't know how to read, but keep me playing and pass me along and set me up to fail.

- I was a very mischievous young man.

I spent more time, they call it time out now, but I spent more time in the principal's office than I did in the classroom that's why I didn't get a good education.

- Right here in this segregated backward society, I got one of the best educations reading Shakespeare and Charsa, Longfellow, Wordsworth, in the eighth grade.

When I was eight years old, I got a library card.

I cannot tell you what kind of doors open up for you with books.

Nothing else does it, nothing else does it.

Kids who grew up with television are growing up with their imaginations stunted.

If you read a book, you create the whole world, it's all created inside your head.

So you have a lot to do with what that looks like.

♪ '07 keeps on walking ♪ ♪ The rest just keep on talking ♪ ♪ We rolling ♪ ♪ Rolling ♪ ♪ Rolling ♪ ♪ Rolling ♪ ♪ Rolling on up out of here ♪ ♪ And we rolling ♪ ♪ Rolling ♪ ♪ We rolling ♪ ♪ Rolling ♪ ♪ Rolling on up out of here ♪ ♪ And we never got one minute of sleep ♪ (audience applauds) - I was so inspired by Dr. King that in 1956 at the age of 16 with some of my brothers and sisters and first cousins, we went down to the local library in Pike County, Alabama, True Alabama is the county seat, trying to get library cards, trying to check out some books.

And we were told by the librarian that the library was for whites only and not for Coloreds.

I never went back to that library until July 5th, 1998, for a book signing of my book, Walking with the Wind.

(audience applauds) And hundreds of Blacks and white citizens showed up.

We had a wonderful time.

We had food, something to drink, I signed a lot of books.

And at the end of the little program, they gave me a library card.

(audience applauds) It says something about the distance we've come and the progress we've made in America.

- [Paul] How did you feel the night Obama won?

- He was just a Muslim, or as most people say, the first nigger that was elected President of the United States.

- I'm telling you, I was very, I was like most people, it brings tears to your eyes to realize that we could do that.

That this country had it in it to live up to its promise.

- Yeah, he is a direct descendant of the devil.

I mean, he's the child of the devil, and he's going to destroy our nation if we leave him in power much longer.

- Well, ever since the founding fathers, however many white men that was, we've always had well-to-do white men as President of the United States.

It was time for a change, so we did it.

- There was a little joke about being the beast of the field and referred to the (censored) as being the beast of the field.

So he is the true beast of the field that my people, and when I say my people, I would say the white Klansman.

- People who are preaching hate.

You see the swastika and you see the confederate flag, and they primarily represent the same thing.

You can't convince anybody here or you can't convince enough people here that we don't need that kind of negativity.

- [Paul] Do you remember the night when Harry Belafonte and Sidney Poitier came into Greenwood?

- No sir, I don't.

- [Paul] Did you hear about it?

- No sir.

- [Paul] You have a very interesting smile, and I'm wondering if you don't want to talk about it but you actually were there.

- No, no sir, I was not there.

And really- - [Paul] Nobody got hurt.

- Right, from what you're telling me.

But I vaguely remember, you know.

But there was so much stuff going on and so many different things.

And it made some of it interest me, some of it didn't interest me.

- And I got a call from Jim Foreman, James Foreman.

He was chair of SNCC.

It was just at the tail-end of the summer campaign.

All these young white students, mostly, and others, but mostly white, had come down to do voter registration all over the state, but particularly in the Delta.

But in order to make that commitment, they needed significant resources to feed them, to give them transportation.

It was a fierce and a violent time because the Ku Klux Klan and the White Citizens Council and every police force in this state were fully alerted and fully engaged in beating back this onslaught of students and getting people registered.

People were being beaten and shot at, and now homes were being bombed and burned, and leading to and inclusive of what happened with the three civil rights workers.

Houses were shot up.

It was a blood bath and a battle zone.

And in the first instance, they needed $100,000 immediately.

And he said, well you can't send it down.

What do you mean?

He said, well, you can't send it by Western Union.

He said because sending that sum of money, nobody will be able to get it.

If any Black person down here goes to the Western Union and say I got 20,000 or 50,000 or $70,000 in cash to get, you may never see him or the money again.

So I called Bobby Kennedy, who at that time was in Rome, and he instructed me to call Burke Marshall, who was the head of the Civil Rights Division.

And I called Burke Marshall.

Most of us down here didn't have much trust of him.

The FBI and all these people always seemed to know too much too quickly about our moves and so we knew we did not have friends inside the government or inside any of the bureaus.

So I called Burke and I told him specifically what we were doing, the plane ticket, the time of arrival, what we were doing, and just alerted him that we would like to know that there were the presence of Marshalls.

Nobody was asking them to intervene in anything unless there was some foul play.

But since they were, and that I was not coming down alone, that I was coming down with Sidney Poitier.

And he said he understood, and he got the message, and that he would do what was necessary, is what he said.

And you know how close Greenwood is to Jackson, it was not a long flight at all.

And we just landed in this little strange field.

(plane engine rumbles) I never saw a night as black as that night.

As we got closer to this little hut, in front of it were these two guys.

One was Willie Blue the other was Frankie.

And there were two cars.

Both of them had been dulled down, like in World War II.

There was nothing shiny, no reflection.

As we got in the cars and they turned the motor on, and they turned on the lights, lights went on around the outer parameter.

And my relief was, I thought it was the feds.

And I said to Sidney in some relief at the moment, I said "Well, I guess the feds are here."

And then we were told by Frankie, "That ain't no feds, that's the Klan."

(suspenseful music) (engines revving) We were in a stunned moment of silence when that reality seeped in.

And I remember sitting, looking, and saying, "That don't look like the FBI to me."

To my surprise, turned around, and they drove towards them, coming perilously close to those trucks.

And then I understood later that that maneuver was to be able to get enough identification of what those vehicles were and who was inside them if any of us would survive the moment.

And then after they did that, they turned around and headed very fast out the gate and down the road.

And then the minute they hit the highway, they slowed down and then began to move at a speed limit.

And my question was, "Why aren't we driving a little faster here?"

He said, "You can't do that 'cause the sheriff will be waiting, you can be rest assured of that.

Once they get you, then you're gonna really disappear."

Well, what they did do was they got on a two-way radio, called in to SNCC telling what was going on.

And before we knew it, a large group of cars came out to greet us and circled us.

Now you have to understand, until that moment, the car that Willie Blue was driving, they tried to pass, the more Willie just stayed in front, getting bumped in the back.

It wasn't very long, all of this, it just seemed like forever.

And those trucks stopped on the middle of the road, banged their guns on the side of the trucks and shot them in the air, and started screaming all kind of, communists, (censored) lovers, and all sorts of stuff.

- [Klan Member] Go to hell.

- And it wasn't the fear, it wasn't just the fear that was in part there, I had fear before, but it was a realization that this was a daily event in the lives of tens of thousands of Black people who had no back door, who were trapped.

When we finally got into Greenwood, we got into this building, and I held the bag up, a cheer went up in that place that was the most deafening noise.

And then I think it was either Jim or somebody else, turned the bag upside down and you watch these bundles of money fall on the table and people just cheered loud, and instantly singing started.

It's time to retire.

Everybody had to go off now they, time to get back and to find their way back home and hopefully nobody would die.

'Cause we knew the Klan was alert and awake.

I also had a chance now to reflect.

And although there's no way to prove this, how did the Klan know we were there?

When we booked a plane, it was booked very quietly under all sorts of other names.

How did they know?

(children laughing and chattering) - [All] M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I.

M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I.

(children laugh) ♪ You know you call me baby ♪ ♪ Everything is gonna be all right ♪ (mellow music) - The Jews control all the money and the media.

That's why we have such a problem with the segregation and the integration and the way things are going, in my opinion.

- [Paul] Of course, you know I'm Jewish, Yes?

- Oh yes sir, yeah, quite aware of that.

But it doesn't affect our friendship one bit.

- [Paul] So does that mean that there's exceptions here?

I'm a good Jew and the others are like- - They're a world of good Jewish people, and I have a awful lot of good Jewish friends.

It's just some of the others, and it's the situation and overall, whole.

- [Paul] Hmm.

You know what's interesting is that if you think about that historical wealth, Rockefeller, not Jewish, Vanderbilt, not Jewish.

In fact, I looked at a study that looked at the boards of directors of the top companies, less than 10% are Jewish.

And of course when you talk about media, Murdoch, one of the top media controllers, if you will, in the world, not Jewish.

In fact, in general, the idea of Jews controlling the world is just not factual.

- All right, all right.

I'm not gonna agree and I'm not gonna 100% disagree with you.

Maybe it's the way I was brought up and the beliefs and what I was shown.

And as we've already talked in many of our discussions, some of my ideas are not 100% right because the truth hadn't gotten to us.

That's the purpose in this documentary is to get through a lot of these misunderstood areas.

And it's amazing how much and how hard you and I try to correct this problem, This is gonna be misinterpreted by some.

(somber music) - Temples got bombed, rabbis' houses got bombed.

Had a meeting, men of the community.

Sent the president of the congregation to see the mayor, and the mayor said, it's your own damn fault.

How is it our fault?

Well, you let those damn Jews from up north come down here and ruin this town, meaning Freedom Riders.

All you Jews are alike.

Whatever one does, they all do, whatever one wants, they all want.

So we knew we couldn't get any help there.

We decided to form our own organization, called it the Kosher Nostra.

We met once a week, still do.

- This country was set up as an Anglo-Saxon country.

The Indians weren't part of it, the slaves weren't part of it.

It had to be English speaking people, people that were compatible with the the British Isles.

- One of our activities was to guard the temple.

And we set up two-man shifts for two hours, four hours a piece as I remember.

And we would sit out in the parking lot with a gun.

- But notice this, notice this, you've had Byron de la Beckwith, you've had Sam Bowers, you've had James Seale, you've had Earnest Avance.

They've all been brought up after 40 or 50 years, and none of them has ever recanted or apologized or backed down.

And that says something for the character of a free people.

- [Paul] Well, if you murder somebody and you don't apologize somewhere down the way, do you think that that's a good thing?

- Well you notice, you commented about- - [Paul] Murder is murder.

- Well, you commented about the guns that I have on my wall, and you asked me, do I hunt?

And the answer is I enjoy hunting.

But if someone breaks in my home, I'm gonna shoot them.

- [Paul] But we're not talking about that.

I'm asking you a different question.

- Wrong, wrong, we are talking about that because I've read some of the memoirs of some of the people I just mentioned who've been brought up on trial and haven't apologized.

And invariably, they all speak of self-defense.

- [Paul] They can speak of self-defense, but in terms of Medgar Evers, if you shoot somebody in the back in their driveway, there's no self-defense.

- Wrong.

Self-defense is defense of the American way of life, the highest patriotism, even the Bible says one who lays down his life for his friends.

- [Paul] Are you saying that it's okay for someone to bomb a church and kill four little girls?

Are you saying that that's self-defense?

- Well, it actually is self-defense.

And I think it's fair to say that we want an all-American America.

And what that means is we want the un-Americans out.

That's people that just are not part of this country, they just don't feel part, they can't become part.

- I don't trust Mississippi.

A lot of Black people who are, especially elected officials, try to convince me that Mississippi is a new day, new things, new energy going on, and yet the largest prison population in the South in the prison system is in Mississippi.

If so much is going on, what's this statistic mean?

I don't trust Mississippi.

The poverty here is the greatest of any state in the country.

I don't trust Mississippi.

- Well, first, I have not changed my attitude, my views, or my thinking one bit.

Everything is still the same way it was in 1965 when we first met.

And over the years I've mellowed, you might say, and I will listen instead of joining a riot, a fight, or participating, in those days, that had me back in about 19 years old, and it was more fun to get involved in something that would stir up trouble.

And really realizing that some of their rights they legally earned fairly.

- [Paul] Would you say then that Medgar was right in what he was trying to do?

- Yes sir, I would say he was right.

Today I vote for some Black candidates in my county, my state, and my local politics.

- [Paul] Would your daddy roll over in his grave hearing this?

- No sir, he wouldn't.

But he would probably have one of them father-son church talks.

- [Paul] Would you say that your father was wrong to have been part of the killing of that man?

- That's a question I hadn't been able to resolve myself.

I'm not wanting to take anybody's life, so, yes, I guess your answer is yes.

(somber music) You don't have anybody right now that's sitting out here like Dr. King was.

You don't have anybody sitting out here like Medgar was.

They was very forceful, very vocal, and well-seen.

- That bothers me more than anything else because Blacks have not realized that a Black mayor has the same power today as a white mayor had 30, 40 years ago, but that many of them don't use it.

That Black congressmen and Black senators and Black representatives have the same power that whites had, why don't they use it?

That's our job now.

We've gotten past it, the white man we can't stop us no more, we on our way.

But where are we going?

It's up to us.

- We haven't dealt with what occurred in the past, and we definitely have not gotten justice for things that have gone, for the unlawful acts that took place.

And until there is some justice, then I don't think that we're gonna move much further than where we are.

- I am the last, the last, and I can tell you this, that with my death will be the end of the Beckwith Klan era.

So what I'm confessing to you, which you'd like to hear some more confessions, is that my children do not take part and do not feel the way I do.

But they're still my children, I still love them, and I still respect them.

- So I have great ambivalence about Mississippi.

I have hope and I'm certainly mindful of how the people here feel and how they're striving and still hoping and believing.

I look around and I want to love it.

It's a pretty place, so much nature and so much stuff, but I can't, I don't feel safe here.

I feel as if somehow the devil is really just paused for a moment and is coming back.

- You met Byron Delay Beckwith Jr. - [Paul] I met you and your fist met my head.

- Well, I'm just gonna say we met each other in Greenwood, Mississippi, at the courthouse and had a conversation.

- You're still avoiding, you're still avoiding- - Paul, I'm- - You can't be prosecuted today for hitting me.

I'm not even gonna testify against you, why would I?

So what do you feel sitting here today?

Are we an example of any kind of reconciliation in your mind?

- Yes sir.

- How so?

- I understand now what you wanted to do and what you wanted to try to help.

So I feel more peace with you and more comfortable.

I still don't agree with what you did, but after we contacted each other for several years and we talked it through, the respect came and the understanding.

Does that make any sense?

- It makes sense and it brings up for me something very odd that I may be criticized for.

I disagree with you entirely in this regard as you do with me, but I like you, and that's a bit of a contradiction.

What I like is I like that you have the courage to meet me, I like that you have the courage and directness to speak your mind and your feelings.

So I know who you are.

- Yes sir.

- Meaning I like that even if I don't agree with your, and if you were hurting people, if today you were throwing bricks at people, I would not be liking you.

- Sure.

- But right now you're an older guy and you're living a peaceful life, and I like the connection that we've been able to be real with each other.

- I'm gonna agree with you 210%, and I'm gonna add one other thing.

Even if there were race riots to break out today and I was on them, and you were sitting in Canada, I firmly believe in my heart you'd sit there and shake your head and say, "I know him, I've talked to him, I understand what he is doing, I just wished he wasn't doing it.

But I'm not gonna go down there and get in his way again."

- You got it almost right.

I would go down and I'd come up to you and I'd say, "Will you stop this (censored)?"

(both laugh) - We too old to go through that again, Paul.

- Well, I appreciate you meeting me.

- Thank you, Paul.

- And I appreciate you spending time and talking to me about all of this.

- Well, I really appreciate you taking the time.

(gentle music) ♪ Who we lost awaken ♪ ♪ Digging up all the skeletons ♪ ♪ We'll never get too far until we accept forgiveness ♪ ♪ So many letters and so many words ♪ ♪ So many hearts bruised by words ♪ ♪ That we have taught our children to live by ♪ ♪ We call people by the color of their skin ♪ ♪ And we're damaging life where the negativity stands ♪ ♪ No bright colors no happiness implied ♪ ♪ 'Cause we've all fought for freedom in some way ♪ ♪ In some land somewhere ♪ - I am joined now by Paul Saltzman, the filmmaker of The Last White Knight.

And Paul, thank you so much for joining us today.

Give us an overview of what this documentary is about.

- Okay.

In 1965, I was sitting in my home in Toronto, Canada, watching the American TV news of the disappearance of three civil rights workers in Mississippi, James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner.

And they went missing, and they'd been taken by the Klan, and later involved the local sheriff as it all came out, and their bodies were missing for 64 days.

And it led me to volunteer with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee in Mississippi.

When I did voter registration work for the summer of 1965, I was stopped by a young man and his three friends, he was in front of me, his three friends got behind me, and he hit me once in the side of the head.

Luckily, I was and am an athlete, and I managed to get away from him and his three friends.

And I went back 43 years later and I found him, and I made a film.

We filmed five times over five years.

- Good to see you.

- Good to meet you.

So my goal was very simple.

Can two people who almost destroyed each other's lives, could we just sit down and talk to each other?

Could we be human together?

Could we find just human reconciliation?

So that's what the film is.

- And did you find reconciliation with Delay?

- Yes, yes, it's fascinating.

Nobody gets out of childhood without some trauma.

Nobody, not a single child is left untouched.

Delay had a lot of trauma in his life.

And my goal was just to hear him.

And literally my goal was not to change him.

We cannot change another person, we can barely change ourselves.

We can barely work with our own selves and say, well, I'd like to be more compassionate, I'd like to be more caring, I'd like to be more patient, I'd like to be more thoughtful, and that takes work on the self.

So you can't change another person.

My goal was not to change him, my goal was just to see if there was any common ground as human beings.

- You bring up a couple really good points there.

The first one, I wanna go back to that conversation you had with him when you told him, well, I am a Jew, and he said, I know.

And even though after you gave him information and facts, he still said he believed what he believed.

Even though he said, like you said, I guess that's what my parents taught me wrong, but it didn't change his thinking.

And knowing this, and especially in the climate we are in today in the world, is that a problem though?

Can you reconcile with somebody who holds fast to their beliefs even if they know they may be wrong factually?

- Well, it's a great question.

First of all, I don't know if he thought the same way after.

When he said- - Maybe it's the way I was brought up and the belief and what I was shown.

- You need to see that scene to appreciate it.

His face fell a little, his- - All right.

- Bravado melted a bit, and he became more feeling, he became more internal.

He said- - Some of my ideas are not 100% right.

- It wasn't, well, maybe I wasn't taught right and I'm gonna stick to it.

So maybe that did change for him.

But I don't think, the old story, hurt people hurt people, right?

And we've all been hurt, everyone's been hurt a little or a lot so we all hurt others a little or a lot.

Can we be aware of that?

And in being aware of it, can we look at the other person and see, well, are they really a bad person?

If they are, you wanna stay away from them.

If they aren't, you wanna make friends.

So how do we have peace in the Middle East?

We're not gonna have peace in the Middle East through bombs.

We're not gonna have peace in the Middle East through pillage and rape and execution and hostages and more bombs, never works.

We will have peace if we can somehow sit down and say, what is ailing you, my friend, and how can we fix that?

And they'll say, what is ailing you, my friend, and how can we fix that?

There's so much love in the world, we can access it.

There's so much love in a human heart, we can access it, if we choose.

- And I understand what you're saying, the dialogue, conversation, that's where it needs to start.

We don't talk to each other, we don't listen to each other, and that's where oftentimes we all butt heads or lock horns.

But this is not a conversation about, should we go here for dinner, or, you did this to me, I mean, this is a conversation about hate and bigotry and racism and antisemitism.

And I'm trying to understand how you could reconcile to a point where you could be warm acquaintances with somebody who still holds hate so close to their heart.

- Good question.

I don't know much about the Bible, but I understand that one of the things Jesus said was, "Let ye who has not sinned cast the first stone."

We all have hurt others, we all hurt ourselves and continue to hurt ourselves until we hopefully learn not to.

I've asked myself to be more spacious, to receive.

How well do I know you?

I don't, we're talking for the first time, but I'm open to who you are and I'm listening to what you're saying, and this is like community, right?

We're creating community, you and I right now in this interview.

And we can create community with every other human being we meet on the street.

We can be kind, you have to be careful, obviously, there are people who are so damaged that they're dangerous.

But other than that, we can learn to hear each other better by choice, it's all choice.

I work with a lot of young people in universities and high schools, and I love doing that in the sense of creating a courageous conversation.

We can learn to make peace in our individual relationships.

I make films to give myself and others courage.

That's what I've done my whole life.

- Well, it's an amazing film, it's a beautiful film.

It's a frustrating film and it brings up all those emotions, and I think that makes it a successful film and we appreciate that you bring us this story about how we all can have conversations and make this world a better place.

That we just need to talk and we need to hear each other.

So Paul, thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

- My pleasure, thank you.

- And for this very thoughtful film, The Last White Knight.

And if you want more on this film or any of our films, check out Atlanta On Film at wabe.org.

(film roll whirring) Wow, we have seen some inspiring films together.

Some made us laugh, some made us cry, but they all made us feel the heart of the Jewish community.

I'm Holly Firfer, we appreciate you letting us spend some time together and spending some time with Atlanta On Film.

Until next time.

(gentle music) - Should we just wait for them inside?

The movie's about to start.

- [Holly] Atlanta On Film is back with an all-new season of captivating films and in-depth conversations with the filmmakers behind them.

- I'm really drawn to stories where characters struggle to love the people that they love most.

- [Holly] With 23 independent films curated by two of Atlanta's most prestigious film festivals, this season of Atlanta On Film is sure to ignite your passion for cinema like never before.

(upbeat music) Experience a range of stories, from thrilling dramas to insightful documentaries.

- She's very surprised that I became a clown.

- [Holly] Each film offering a unique window into the artistry and vision of independent filmmaking.

Catch all-new episodes on WABE TV, and stream anytime on wabe.org/AtlantaOnFilm (lively music) (dramatic music) - [Presenter] WABE.